Check vs HerO

Sick games.

Be nice to Rifkin pls :(



dude, he's good. it's that stupid girl thing.



#2 agreed bounce her



Please, no more rifkin/zombiegrub VODs.

Poor timing of play-by-play, horribly innacurate/ignorant strategic analysis, bad chemistry, just awful all the way around...

Apologies if this feedback seems rude - but they are basically unwatchable, especially given the other great casting teams available on this site.



It's nice to see LiquidHero shine in ZvP again.

Pimaville is right in that the banter between the casters tends to fall flat. You guys try to be mock-antagonistic but it doesn't quite work.



I'd like to voice my agreement with pimaville and Hadronik. They're probably the worst duo I've listened to on here in the past 3 years, at least in my opinion. They're awkward, the don't seem to know what they're talking about, and they have no charm or charisma.

In fact, it especially bugged me when ZombieGrub was mildly smack-talking another caster (Valdes) because 1) who would have the nerve to do that? isn't that against caster ettiquette? and 2) he's significantly better than she is.



Guys, you're right, but those VODs are only here because there is not much else going on right now.

They may not be a great casting duo, but they are better than nothing!

Right?



Yah, and the wrong info.....

Zerg Larva and eggs have 10 armor. Since Oracle's have 10 vs light, they can one-shot larva.



Yea, too bad these casters are awful human beings, look at the kind of slander they were saying about the website to their incredibly large audience

http://www.twitch.tv/basetradetv/v/3684688

I guess it won't be a problem anymore, though.



Yes Santah, better than nothing. And even when there are other VODs to post, please include these as well.

I'd rather have the choice to not watch these casters then no choice.



Since this site is aimed at making money from the content provided by Rifkin and Zombiegrub (hereby refered to as "leaching off the backs of harder working people") the statement "those VODs are only here because there is not much else going on right now." strikes me as disingenuous. Bad blood or not, you benefit from Rifkin and Zombiegrubs work, and you should probably be more respectful as a result.

Also, jtjdt, when correcting people it helps if you have any idea what you're talking about. Larva have 25 hp and 10 armor. An oracle shot does 15 damage 10 to light. The reason they one-shot larva is because it does spell damage which ignores armor. Better luck next time.



@Rifkin thanks for the shoutout.

And @Boblekonvolutt, you're also correct. I phrased it in a wrong way and I apologize.

My position on Rifkin and what he does was always well known - when there is a lot of stuff goin on (dreamhacks, iems, gsl etc) and there are a ton of daily VODs available - I post those and skip the ones by Rifkin.

It's nothing personal, it's what I believe is best for the site and the users (and what I've seen they want from the feedback I get).

When the scene is slow, like it's now - of course I'm going to post his VODs, they're not that bad, they're only of lower quality when compared to professionally organized, cast and shot big events.

@Rifkin, @Boblekonvolutt - we good?



"Pressure"? "Pressure build"?

Ok, this wasn't a great casting performance but they can do better, I think they are decent when they put some effort into it. I'm not sure about the third person though. What is his role, what does he add? If he is really good at analyzes (?), give him time to analyze! Lastly, the "friendly" banter isn't entertaining anyone. It's the worst part of almost all casters in my oppinion and should be kept to a minimum (yes, even the great Tastosis).



@Boblekonvolutt Sorry, I meant to say an extra 10 vs light. They said in the cast that larva have no armor and eggs have 10 and then didn't check and see, a simple click would've answered their question vs all the arguing that happened in the cast.



@Boblekonvolutt "plus" symbols don't show up in the comments. That's why my comment made no sense.



I can get behind the "they are better than nothing" concept.
I can also understand that it's easier to lob criticisms on the internet than actually create something, so I try to be respectful and constructive when voicing criticism.

That said, the stuff by rifkin/zombiegrub is of *extremely* low quality.
I'm not sure how the VOD 'industry' works, but it definitely feels like the approach rifkin/zombiegrub have taken is to churn out a lot of quantity without much focus on quality - and I think it's fair to mention that.
I've also made sure that I've watched a few dozen casts before I started voicing criticism - maybe i just saw a couple bad ones, or they could be getting better... but nope - cast after cast consistently has the same basic shortcomings.

If the goal is to have fun with each other and sort of talk about a starcraft game that's occurring, I think there is a place on the internet for that (just not here, ideally)
But if the goal is to create videos that SC2 fans actually want to watch, I think there absolutely needs to be focus on actually covering the matches properly. Most of us are here to see the games and the value added by commentary, not random commentary with value added by a game in the background.

I've never gotten the impression that either player knows much about the game in general. I could be wrong, but as a lowly diamond player, there are just so many facepalming "wrong!" moments that I'd assume anyone in platinum wouldn't make. And it's not "I think X, what do you think?" It's "X is true - next topic!" - which makes X being completely wrong even more annoying.

The worst part is the complete apathy about these subjects that comes across during the casts, it doesn't seem like either caster is trying to become more learned - just make it through to the end. Every cast feels like the game is almost an interruption to what they would have been talking about. Which (in my very personal opinion - I know that tastes do vary) is generally inane/uninteresting, and some very forced unfunny comedy efforts.

Hopefully these thoughts are of some value to someone!

Rifkin/Zombiegrub, if you guys read this stuff you can either view it as areas for improvement or disregard. I hope that none of this comes across as personal attacks, I have no idea how good I'd be at casting but my guess is "not very".



@Boblekonvolutt: I fully disagree with your point of view although I do understand it. The almighty dollar once again should trump over free speech and opinion, eh? Perhaps you should have more sympathy for Santah's plight, since the people, his subscribers and viewers, are loudly and repeatedly complaining about the two poor casters. It would be poor busniness sense to not empathise with your customers, they would after all, move to a different venue (your money argument thrown back at you). I understand the world that we live in, and realize that people do need to make that paper, and in order to do the right thing, as well as show others the way, I am subscribing to SC2Casts premium right after this comment. I do so to fully support the admin in his (and his echoing of the majority)'s opinion. I also do so to support the free speech community that we have on this site. You hate a caster? Speak up! You want to watch more hatcheries and queen explode (like me!)? Speak up! Death to the Swarm! Thank you, Santah, for providing this for us!

@Rifkin: Your attempt to link our criticism of your casting to a personal hatred of you falls flat. "If you don't like our casting you think we are terrible people!" No, good sir. We think you are simply bad casters. Showing the admin that you like his site should not affect his or our opinions of your casting. "I guess it won't be a problem anymore, though." Is that some kind of a threat? Will you now diss this site because we feel that you are a bad caster? So much the worse for the fans, because they will miss out on sweet VOD's (your's muted, of course). It doesn't have to be a problem. We survived without you, during dry spells. We can always go back to Crota (no, i'm kidding... he was worse)! I personally have no problem with your casting, i know very little of the games and my apm is like 45. My problem is her voice, it is grating and irritating. She should turn down her volume as a quick fix. But those who know more than me have spoken! Shape up your casting, ditch her and find someone better (like Husky!!!!!), or you two might end up like axslav and axelrod.



yup! I put my money where my mouth is, and urge everyone to do the same! Show your dislike of blifkin and zombiechub by becoming premium members! Support the admin in his free speech!



*of their casting



@tommunation I'm not entirely sure why some people being dicks on the internet is suddenly a matter of life and death, a fundamental point in history where we must stand our ground to guard liberty and freedom... Anyway, pretty much every Basetrade TV cast linked on this site has a positive ratio in terms of likes/dislikes so you're clearly wrong there as well.



@pimaville - I can see you're reasonable - in future please don't go around copy/pasting your comment (#4) all over the site. Not cool!

It created a lot of work and almost got you banned from the site (which would've been a lot less work).



Fair enough :-)

Wasn't really sure if anyone would read one specific comment, so I just pasted it on the 5 casts for yesterday (all rifkin/zombiegrub).

I wouldn't really call that "all over the site", or understand how it could be a lot of work to pare 5 duplicates down to 1, but I agree it was unnecessary.

Partly I was kind of curious if anyone generally reads these comments (I rarely do) or agrees on the (lack of) quality of the Rifkin/Zombiegrub casts (turns out people do).

In any event, at the end of the day I enjoy the site and wish you all the best running it. Was just really sad to have several straight days of all rifkin/zombiegrub... FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS!




Good comments, mostly. Just keep in mind that the people commenting here is just a small minority of all who watches the video. Don't take it too hard Rifkin, but try to learn something instead! It is good that the community is alive! I love to watch this game! To the site admin: Keep up the good work, great site!! (I'll get my premium next salary ;)





all this hate, name calling and badmouthing casters is ridiculous. These casters are working hard to bring some content to the community. If you don't like them, it is perfectly fine. you can mute the vod or simply not watch it. but calling them names and being disrespectful is completely uncalled-for.
these are grass-roots organisations working hard to better themselves and provide more content. they are self trained & self employed individuals, and although they might not be the best at what they do right now, it is only through practice and execution that they can work to better themselves.
i know criticism comes with being a public figure, and rifkin\zombiegrub should have developed a thick skin by now, but one must put themselves in their shoes before criticising... and provide constructive criticism at all times.
and if you hate them so much... why don't you attempt to cast these games and provide us with your godly commentary and analysis???
ps. my apologies for typos and spelling mistakes... i am typing this on a wii u.



No one called them names. Reading comprehension, like game comprehension, seems to be something your whole little crew lacks.



I've seen little BM in this thread of comments. People have voiced their opinions. An opinion never has to be agreed upon in this atmosphere. And I fully agree with most, if not all, the criticism. You can call them grassroots all you want, say they're bringing content to the public. But they receive donations for such effort, and do not really even try to get better. Watch their stream. It's emotionless and corny, and you'll learn nothing about starcraft. People are simply saying what they think and that's within their rights. And again, there's been little-to-no bad manners here, all criticisms. If you disagree then it is whatever man. Go donate to them or continue watching their stuff. Don't come here and misinterpret everything that's been said.



Its honestly for the good of the community that criticism can ring loud. Starcraft is easily exploited monetarily with today's online environment. Much rather that the money (and the good games) went to a team that cares. From my personal experience, I don't feel either Rifkin or Zombiegrub could give a damn about the actual competition. It's just a way to sit at home and make a few bucks. If a large amount of people feel the same way, criticism is just. Take in mind that their twitch stream received a rather large amount of followers (its been close to 10k viewers during the WCS qualifiers, so it is not as though these are newbies getting ripped for no reason. It also means a fair amount of folks don't mind their casting. AGAIN, nobody's opinion requires agreement here. ITS JUST DISCUSSION. And criticism can be constructive. Honestly, it should be from this thread, these are complaints that can be improved, and we could notice the improvement as it happens. It just hasn't happened. Hence, here we are.



This comment thread is the greatest thread on this site, bar none!

I'm not going to state my opinion on the whole Rifkin/Zombiegrub are good or bad at casting discussion (doesn't matter, have elsewhere), but will say that this thread epitomizes why I love the Starcraft 2 community (and the SC2cast community in particular): Valid points on both sides, little jabs here and there but nothing sacrilegiously disrespectful (considering its the internet), an Admin that moderates with balance and understanding (fistbump Santah), and the general feeling that everyone posting is only doing so because they want what is best for the game and it's viewers, and to see it evolve and continue to see it presented in better ways.

C'mon guys, bring it in. Group hug?



Cafe, I think you do a good job debunking the "this is unprovoked libel/unwarranted flaming" argument a few people are bringing up.
Yeah, we can all obviously not watch casters we don't like - but does that mean we can't or shouldn't review them? It's like saying a restaurant reviewer should only write positive reviews...

Bonsai, I like your summary.

I think that some parties on this thread are a little more motivated by self-interests than what's good for the game and the viewers, but then again - I'm interested in what's good for me, the viewer! Glass houses and all that... ;-)



Have you guys figured out the existence of god and time travel in this debate yet?



the programmer/program/ai that created us, time travel only works going into the future.

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