ret vs Squirtle

that transition out of muta ling into blord leaves zergs sooo vulnerable (game 5)



he might have held if he brought the mutas and lings back... lol.. 3 base toss vs 5 base zerg...

"well if he has sentries and immortals he can still win"

true dat.



Day9 bugs the everliving shit out of me. Anything anyone does, he's like "Oh my gosh how weird! He did X at Y minutes! What a crazy idea!" He says it about lairs, starting unit production, maxing out, +3 upgrades, push outs, everything. Every goddamn series he casts, he does this. It's so abrasive, and it has nothing to do with anything.

Anyway, Ret lost the last game because he didn't do any damage with the mutas and didn't make a single roach to stop that push. Maybe skipping the double spire to get the single best unit in ZvP would be an okay idea



^ Just because you have no idea how the game is played at a higher level, doesn't what day9 points out wrong. Ret's gas timings and lair timings in these games were actually quite quick by today's standards - 2xgas at 6:00 was actually the standard set a while back, Stephano was really the first zerg I saw do it like that (most zergs back then took 2xgas@5:30, like nestea), but that was a while back, and nowadays the standard is 2-3xgas at 6:30+, and a much later lair. Ret also took his 4th gas quite quickly, most Zergs really wait until after 7:00 to get it, and not only that, Ret also took his 5th and 6th gas very very quickly, before 8:00, when the majority of Zergs wait very, very long before getting 5th-6th gas because if you go roach, ling, or even hydras, it's way too much gas, and just grabbing the 5th and 6th gas can put you in a very dangerous position if the Toss does a gateway all-in (i wouldnt say you lose, but you would be hard pressed to survive any sort of gate all-in if you take those gases, as you need to pump roach/ling). As a result of his quick earlier gases, and his quick 5th and 6th gas, he actually gets his spire really quickly by today's standards as well. Furthermore, he skips his roach warren too. Squirtles pushes were also quite odd.

Double spire, while I personally don't agree with it, is actually quickly becoming standard in lategame ZvP when going broodlords (stephano actually goes double spire and 1/1 before greater spire). Also, roaches are a terrible idea, you aren't going to be a max toss with blink upgraded stalkers/immortals/sentries/HT with any roach based army... quite simply, Ret lost because he didn't have his broodlords in time (a result of making so many mutas delaying his broodlords, and not doing enough damage meaning Toss' 3 base stalker/HT push came before broodlord/infestor is out). It's pretty well established, and already a somewhat outdated way to play ZvP - use mutas to contain Toss on 3 base while getting 5 base gas and mass spines, broodlord/infestor before Toss pushes out, and if Toss pushes out before HT and a large enough army, you win with a base trade. Ret did not even make a roach warren, and if you see Toss get gas like he did and know he isn't doing a gateway all-in, you really don't need it (he ruled out an all-in obviously by gas timings, maps, and toss not having moved out by 9:00...).

Day9 did a great job casting this game, and pointed out a lot of things that weren't 'typical'. At such a high level of play, players cut corners a lot or try to do 'weird' things, in order to eck out an edge (even if it isn't 'honest', like skipping roach warren or getting your 5th and 6th gas so ridiculously quickly).

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