KeeN vs Life

Great to see some really aggressive Zerg play! All these zergs macroing for 25 minutes straight is boring to watch but Life is very aggressive and WILL kill you if you mess around.

To bad it shows the glaring imbalance in TvZ. Terran NEEDS to deal damage to Zerg in case of a macro game, but if Zerg decides to attack Terran, Terran NEEDS a specific response. Thus; Terran has to react but doesn't have the tools to do so.

Highly interesting!



If I remember correctly, the balance complaint from Terrans is creep/infestor/queen makes Zerg immune in the mid-game, and broodlord/corruptor/infestor is unkillable late. I don't think the complaint is based on games that come down to:

Game 1: Proxy 2rax fail
Game 2: Muta/ling
Game 3: Hellion harass that failed vs lings
Game 4: Proxy 2rax win
Game 5: Blue-flame all-in fail

The only game that included the creep/infestor problem was game 3, and Life was already way ahead anyway



fail



@Yabbadabbadoo
The balance complaint all stems from the queen + 2 range buff which changed the zerg metagame - the new 4,5,6 queen builds which not only allows Z to be safe and drone up more than they could before but to avoid most of the damage T could deal early game pre-patch. In a match-up where pretty much all pros agree that T has to do damage or they will be behind Z in macro (due to larva mechanic) this poses a problem.

In TvZ, the extra queens can both spread creep and can defend against a lot of early aggression (2-4 hellion run-bys, early bunkers, early marines, banshees).
This means - 1. Z can drone up more/expand faster and more safely than it could pre-patch as you don't need to rely on as many lings/spine crawlers to defend early aggression (more larva on droning, possibly speed doesn't need to be researched as quickly - gas can be taken later)
2. creep is spread much more quickly which will help with defending early,mid and late game aggression from T (and P), as faster units generally make them more effective.

Game 2 - look at the defence Z had and compare that to games pre-patch. more queens, not as many lings, creep spread further out, no spine. Z feels safe without these investments that cost larva, means more resources dedicated to macro early game. both harassment options (hellions/banshee) by T were shut down largely to queens alone. this can make the timing of the 2 base mutas a lot faster too.

Game 3 - hellion harass was shut down by the 3 queens and lings, comparing that scenario to pre-patch games, a lot more lings and maybe a spine would have to be produced to defend this aswell as T dealing damage to Z - thus a much less developed macro at the same stage of the game.





2rax is a gamble with bad odds for the terran, if zerg scouts it or just suspects it in any way it won't work. But without these threats zerg can skip any defense other than queens until his third base is saturated and we all know how the game then continues.
Ppl have been complaining about terran cheese, but nowadays terran really relies on the possibility of it, since without early attacks T is just the weakest race by far.



Yabbadabbadoo, why would you even write a comment if you have no idea what the problem is for T vs Z. Perfect thought out responce by Cakesoup





You have to be an absolute goddamn moron to look at somebody collapse in their own base vs ling/muta and think it's because the Zerg has 4 queens instead of 2 queens and a spine. Grow a brain



Zerg is OP, game is stupid until nerf.



Yabbadabbadoo just shhhhhhhh. You think the problem for Terrans is creep/infestor/queen makes Zerg immune in the mid-game, this just shows your understanding of this match up





A massive LOL at all the whiners. Keen is actually just a fucking scrub, no need for balance discussion here.



@yabbadabbadoo - I don't think you really understand the importance of the new metagame shift. Watch games pre-patch where analytical casters like Artosis cast, and they will make an effort to point out pros making 2 - 4 lings for map control or more than 4 lings (im talking about even if they make 6 lings). Why? more lings = less larva to make drones. As workers gather around 40 mins/minute, in the early game this will slow down your build. When at the pro level, a delay of 15-20 in game seconds can mean not getting that small timing window, having 1-2 less roaches to defend, small differences that can mean dealing damage or not, a win or a lose in the early game.

Now think of how Z defends post-patch in TvZ. They rely more on queens (don't cost larva) and not as many lings (cost larva) to defend a lot of aggression. A spine crawler is not essential any more (cost a drone). The difference could be that Z can make an extra 3-5 drones at that stage of the game, which adds up to 120 - 200 extra minerals per minute.
Still doesn't sound like much? Well then, think of what players will do with that extra income, slightly faster droning, slightly faster macro hatch ect ect. which compounds this advantage again and again.
Still not enough? Think back to more pre-patch games where 4reactor hellions normally at least toasted 4-5 drones (if not the entire worker line).
Need more? Since lings/spines aren't as pivotal in defending anymore, ling speed is not as essential, ie. extractors (which cost a drone to make) can be delayed, which also means those 3 drones don't need to mine that 100 gas, which means more minerals to spend on droning.

In other words, although the queen buff may not directly influence muta/ling, the ability to shut down most or all damage to econ by relying more on queens, which allows for better macro which allows for faster getting of things later on will indirectly influence it.



You're living in a fantasy cry-baby world. Game 2: 3 queens and 14 SPEEDLINGS defended the hellions. Wash away your tears and watch a game where your balance complaints don't make you sound like a paranoid schizophrenic. He lost to muta-ling, it has absolutely nothing to do with queens or creep spread or infestors or broodlords. He used the old-school pre-patch muta-rush build that everybody abandoned because it isn't actually good and totally wiped Keen



I'm not even saying that ZvT isn't imbalanced. Maybe it is. I personally think infestors are boring turtle units, and if you combine them with the vision and movespeed of creep it becomes insanely boring to watch. They turn ZvZ into the exact same thing, a 5-base turtle game where you just max out and bang your armies together until somebody runs out. To be honest, I thought muta/ling/baneling was way more exciting to watch and way more difficult to play. The problem is that it just stopped winning, and they had to patch until there was a Zerg strat that could win, and now it seems to win every time. Maybe the super-late-game Raven sky-strat can make the winrate even, but that actually isn't my concern as much as that the creep/infestor games are boring.

But as for these games... The ultimate problem with your complaints with these games is that they had absolutely nothing to do with balance, and that's really the story



@yabbadabbadoo - your'e seriously arguing that at the 7 minute mark 2 queens (not counting 1 in main) and 14 lings, 8 of which were produced at 7 minutes proves your point? an investment of 7 larva and 650 minerals to have no econ damage? your'e seriously going to ignore how easily the 4 hellions were caught by the lings because of the creep spread? and youre seriously going to ignore the fact that he felt so damn safe just having that to defend he could dedicate the rest of his resources to 2 base mutas at the 9 minute mark? I'm going to do us both a favour and assume that your'e just trolling and I took the bait. Ha Ha Ha, damn you got me, it was funny though, touche.

also don't get me wrong... I don't think the match-up can be called imbalanced in any way. Honestly I think T that use the same openings that worked pre-patch should lose, purely because they are not trying new things to try to adapt to the new metagame.




Hey, in celebration to HOTS, blizard have decided to make zerg just a little bit op, I don't see the problem!!



So, aside from your theorycraft fantasy world, did you ever actually see a 1-gate gasless expo into 4 hellions do damage vs 14 speedlings inside a zerg base before the patch? Link please. Otherwise, STFU

What, are speedlings OP now? First it's queen range; then, in the game where queens have nothing to do with it, it's zerglings? Zerglings OP? You sure?



Yabbadabbadoo you are having a nightmare mate, you well and truely have lost this argument, just take it on the chin and be quiet






Wow, that was unexpected. ^^ Great play of Life.

Awesome cast of Apollo & Arthosis man, a shame those two wont cast the finals. :(



Always a pleasure to watch VODs casted by Artosis, and I look forward to our hero from the other semis stomping this Z down. At least Life should put up a fight :)

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