Huk vs Dongraegu

Very off day for Huk.



Over 40% were actually voting for HuK? Made my day :D



I dont see why he keeps going that late citadel with that 3rd base. I would much rather see him go a fast robo with immortals. Would handle those heavy roach attacks much better in the lenght



Its actualy lame how impossible it is for Protoss do deal with attacks like this... By all the games from MLG I watched the conclusion is that protoss need to go all-in on 2 bases/do some nearly all in timing attack OR do huge economic damage (with some cheesy strat) at the early game, else you just always lose to zerg.. the 3/4 base zerg is just impossible to stop because he can stream endless amounts of lings/roaches. And the problem is that, if you go heavy stalker/immortal you will just die to lings, if you go zealots you die to roaches... of course, if somehow you survive this in the middle of the agression the mutas start to come out and then its also over because protoss has no real counter to mutas other then fenix, but going felix doesn't work because then you would already have lost to the roaches...

Its ridiculous, serious, Huk played very well the first game, was on 3 bases, but zerg just get a 200 army at the time a protoss gets a 120 army, even with the protoss macroing well (like Huk was) and the 200 army of zerg doesn't go down anymore while protoss just can't keep up because there units are very expensive and roach/ling nearly for free...



bad move to stay on gateway units so long.. he should have went early robo for immortals.



Maldazar, the first game was lost because DRG did very good scouting, and was able to make the right decision to macro up. Zerg is supposed to have a larger economy because their units are so cost inefficient. What happened in game 1 was Huk did not put any pressure on at all, allowing DRG to take advantage of Zerg macro.

Second, Huk allowed his destructable rocks on his ramp to be destroyed, leaving HUG HOLE in his defenses, and opening him up to 2 pronged attacks.

Third, He split his army based on unit type! He had ALL his sentries at his main, and ALL his stalkers at his 3rd. OF COURSE sentries can't hold roaches, I mean, WTF dude, you can't call imba on dumb shit like that.

Second game:
Exactly as the casting archon said, Huk was waaay behind after his poor cannon rush, and letting the lings into his main. He then did not make any sentries! He has very good micro, but against lings, you need dem sentries!

Huk just played 2 bad games, so before you start QQ'ing, please take a look at the games with some decent amount of thought.



When you're playing Starcraft 2 sometimes a Korean just comes along and takes a dump on your chest. Shit happens.

@ Maldazar, watch game one of Elfi vs Stephano, which was on Antiga Shipyard, happened a couple weeks ago. It supports your point, as an example of how protoss has to setup to win -- stalker/sentry/immortal which was a 2base timing all-in, but I think Elfi definitely had an option to expand. Also funny that the casters were talking about a 20-ish win streak Stephano had in ZvP... http://sc2casts.com/cast7593-elfi-vs-Stephano-Best-of-3-Assembly-Winter-2012-Round-of-8



#4 : Phoenix is not the only counter to Mutas. Learn the game, then we can talk balance.



Oh by the way: MC never really loses to Zerg, does he? :)



you also have to realize that it is a great zerg that can scout, control, and macro like DRG...a well timed protoss death ball with good composition will serve 'toss well in many-many lower league games




Toss doesn't need to go two base all in... What toss needs is perfect unit composition. Since protoss units are so expensive and have high supply cost you can't afford against a top zerg like DRG to have 4 more zealots than necessary, or 2 inmortals less. I think Huk didn't read DRG properly... c'mon, roach ling can't be stopped with centries, zealots, and inmortals?? Good forcefields can almost nullify any zerg army. It's hard to play toss, I know, because you have to be perfect on your unit making desicions, as well as where you have them, but when those two things are executed right, zerg armies really start to show their weaknesses.
I remember a game from white'ra, when he lost all his army against ultras with lings and queens, but then he made inmortals+archons and zerglings were fried and ultras exploded like automatic bombs before even getting to the inmortals.



Responding to people saying that its balanced:

So you guys think its normal that its impossible for protoss to win the game without doing early presure (while zerg don't have to do any) and that maxing out on only the tier 1 units of zergs makes on the like 13 minute mark is kind of impossible for protoss to hold without perfect unit compossition (they need at least some very expensive immortals that are useless against lings) and very good micro (perfect FF e etc, where from zerg can always just retreat and go back or attack another base because there army is a lot more mobile).. thats all just normal?

I was not JUST talking about this games, but about MLG in general, all the PvZ I saw the same thing, OR protoss does lots of early cheesy presure OR they go timing all in, else they lose.

The last chance is in VERY late game WITH mothership (and they will take that away in expansion) I never see a late game protoss army without mothership holding it well against zerg... (mothership for archon toilet, or just to cut zerg army in half).

Also, to TheWhiskey, no, there are no other REAL counters to Mutas, they are too fast for even blink stalkers, specialy on 3 bases, also, when there numbers get high enough they just kill stalkers if you don't like max out on them (but then lings just come for the kill)...
Of course you can build Archons that counter them VERY well, if any zerg would be stupid enough to walk his mutas clumbed up against archons.. but then again, mutas are too fast and mobile to do that...
Also you get locked in your base by mutas, you cant go out else they have half your base and your entire economy destroyed and still get back in time to participate in the fight (little exaggeration here, but you guys get the point).

Also, saying that zerg units are cost ineffective is just stupid, serious, zerglings/roaches are the most cost effective units in game (maybe only after marines), yes, LATE game units of zerg are cost ineffective, but the units that they are using mostly are extreemly cost effective.

PvZ is just a joke at the moment, I used to play protoss but switched to zerg this season and i'm loving to own all the protoss..



i have a hard time with 'toss lol...but maybe ineed to watch your games ..



@Maldazar

Funny, I just switched to Toss from Zerg because I enjoy the warpgate mechanic and find it much easier to macro than remembering injects.

Anyway, that aside, you are wrong on a few things. Zerg IS certainly cost ineffective. Look at most any high level replay with a zerg winning and often the resources lost tab will be fairly close with even the zerg losing many more resources at times! This is exactly because they can afford to throw away roaches/lings due to high cieling for macro. I undertsand why toss can have difficulty with zerg, but seriously don't blow it out of proportion when it comes to it win rates are always close to 50/50 even though it might not be exactly there showing that everything is essentially balanced.





So you say that its normal that, over de last 1 year, protoss only 1 month (the one from 1 year ago) had a higher win rate than zerg in PvZ? Serious, from 12 months, protoss had 1 month with more wins. You can see the information here: http://i.imgur.com/VtcT2h.png

Also in PvT there where only 3 months where protoss has ahead... Can anyone still say that protoss is NOT underpowered? Serious, hard numbers is still not enough proof? The fact that on avarage protoss wins a lot less from terran and zerg is just the way it is suposed to be? That is just ridiculous....

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